– Hello, and welcome to
Tales from the Closet. This is a vod-
[Thunderclap] Oh, Mom? [Laughter] This is a vodcast. It’s also a podcast. It’s also a lifestyle brand. If you’re watching this
right now on Dropout, thank you so much. Thank you for supporting us. It’s kind of like a Patreon
where you pay $5 a month, and you get this show, and then like 29 other projects that we’re currently working on. Today I’m joined by three people that I am huge fans of. Very excited to hop into this show. Let’s just start. Who are you? Where are you from? What did you listen to
on the way in today? – Oh, I’m Gaby Dunn, she/her pronouns. I identify as a bisexual. I’m from Florida, and I listened to Tov Lo on the way here. – Ooo! I love it. All right, moving on. – Hey, my name’s Yazmin Monet Watkins. Bisexual in the building.
[Laughter] This never happens, by the way. – I know.
– Two Bs in the same place. My pronouns are she/her/hers, and I’m from Los Angeles, California. – Love it. What’d you listen to, if anything? – Oh, you all remember The Weeknd’s “House of Balloons” album? – Oh my God, the hottest
thing that’s ever been made? – I should not have gotten
that hot and bothered on my drive here. – I wondered why we all hooked
up when you first got here. [Laughter] Moving on. – Hi, I’m Jared Goldstein, he/him. I’m from Long Island, New York, and this morning I listened to “Morning View,” by Towkio featuring SZA. – Oh. And I, of course, am Ally. I do go by they/them. I am into women, at this point, and I don’t know what that makes me, help. Okay, great. Thank you so much for being on this show. This, of course, is a show about being out of the closet, and looking back and being like, “Ha, ha,” or, “boo-hoo.” [Laughter] Probably a combo. – More the latter. – Little of both. – Yeah, fully, yeah. Sometimes it’s so sad that it’s funny. – That’s most of it.
– Yeah. – That’s most of life. – Absolutely. I tried to look up today what the etymology of “coming
out of the closet” is, like where that’s from, and no one has an answer. There was even, I read like
a full Time Magazine article that pretty much came
up to, “We’re not sure.” What did I read? – An inside joke with three people, and then it just went viral
before viral was a thing. – Three perfect queers. – I imagine, in my mind, it’s something where you, it’s a gay, not a slur, but like, “Oh, you’re out of the closet,” like you’re fashionable now, or whatever. – Oh, that’s interesting. There was- – I don’t know, I’m making that up, but it seems right. – I am shooting from the hip currently. – I don’t like it when people
use it for other stuff. They’re like, “I’m a closeted dairy eater. [Exclamations Of Agreement] I’m like, “Just don’t do that.” – So what kind of strife
did you have at a young age in knowing that you wanted to eat dairy? – I think it’s frustrating to me that straight people don’t have to. I’m like, “Really? You all don’t got to come out?” – Yeah, they should. – Everybody should come out. – Whenever someone asks me like, “When did you know you were gay?” That’s a pretty common question. I’m like, “When did you
know you were straight?” – Right. – Probably around the same time. Probably when sexuality’s in our veins. – This morning. – This morning. – Yeah, but they don’t have to have a bunch of unsatisfying gay sex before they’re like, “Oh.” Wouldn’t that be nice
if they had to do that. – [Jared] Oh man. – You’re like, “Oh me,
pretending to be gay again.” – I guess everyone disassociates. – Oh, so dark and so real. – Yeah, and then they’re like, “Okay, now I can have my
coming out,” or whatever. – Yes. I did love “coming out” as a phrase is actually from, there were huge gay balls. There’s a huge gay ball scene, and when you came out, now it kind of means like that
hard conversation you have with someone where you came out, but came out actually meant
like when you showed yourself to the rest of the gay community, and they got to see
you for the first time. They stole it from the
debutante balls, yeah, so wouldn’t that be nice if they’re like, “Yeah, my coming out story
was everyone was shit-faced. I looked amazing. I was finally seen. Everyone that was just like me.” – [Jared] All I heard you
say was huge gay balls, and then I was like, “Don’t
say it, don’t say anything. Don’t say nothing.” – It came from these huge gay balls. – Yes. [Laughter] – That we all came out of, welcome. – We’re all just on this
podcast giggling about balls. – Yeah, right? – Yeah, great. This is kind of the part of the show where we kind of share
some of our own tales from the closet. I remember, it was so shocking to me in college when I realized that I
had been operating under the assumption that everyone was gay. They just figured out how to deal with it. I was just like, “Oh, my feelings are like
what everyone starts with, but they have like,” especially being very Christian, it was like, “Oh, they’ve like figured out how to get past that temptation,” like everyone’s gay, and then realizing like, “No, no, no, a lot of people are
just genuinely straight, and it’s okay.” – But also people are so
much more on the spectrum than they say. I feel like everyone’s
like, “Oh, I’m straight,” but it’s like, “No, you’re
like straight-point-five,” you know what I mean? [Laughter] – I know two completely straight women, and that’s my whole life. I’ve only known two. – Yeah. – It will be like some girl
will be like, “I’m straight,” but then she’s like, “Oh yeah, I’ve slept with three
or four women,” or whatever, so I only know two actual
straight women who have never- – But I think the more
the gender gets fluid, – Been interested in a woman. – The less straight means anything. – Right.
– I don’t know. It’s like, “Wake up,” you know? – Yeah. Did you just yell, “Wake up?” – Wake up! I got to find out. [Laughter] – Put your makeup on. – Thank you. System of a Down, sponsor this podcast. [Laughter] System of a Down presents
Tales from the Closet. – I’d watch the shit out of that. – I would absolutely. – So yeah, what about you guys? What are some moments when you were like, “Wow, I might be queer?” – I went to a sleepaway camp, and there was one year, you could request who
you wanted to be put with in your cabin, and there was one year where I, there was a mistake or something, and I got put with the
popular girls by accident. [Ally Laughs] Then they all straightened their hair and put a lot of perfume on, and would sit and do their
makeup for a long time in the mirror and stuff, and I was like, “Oh
no, this is a problem,” and then I was like, “Table it, table it. Come back to it later. Put it away.” – Yes. – My nerd friends, it wasn’t, but they were all just like
in bras and being like, “I’m hooking up with counselors, I’m 13,” and I would be like, “Cool,
I love that for you, great.” – Oh God, yes. – But then there was
another girl in that cabin who I was really close to, and we became super good friends, and then I lost touch with her completely, and then 10, 15 years later, she’s in LA, and we saw each other, and she’s also queer. – [Ally] Yes, I love that. – Yeah, and that’s happened a few times with girls I was super-close
to when I was younger, and then you meet up with them later, and they’re like oh yeah, for sure queer, and you’re like, “Hey, me too.” – All of my friends growing up, I feel like we found each other. – Those little moments. – Middle school boyfriend’s gay. We were just like, “We did it.” – My middle school boyfriend,
I think, is gay too, but like, oh no, I shouldn’t. He probably won’t watch this, but he’s a pastor’s son, and so he’s just like never,
I don’t think ever going to, but I remember my middle
school teacher coming up to me and being like, “He just
hasn’t found himself yet.” – Oh no. – Yikes. – Get out of here. – As his girlfriend. – [Gaby] Stay out of it, God. I wrote so many weird essays that, looking back, were so gay, and I can’t believe my English
teacher didn’t take me aside and be like, “Look, we asked
you to write a short story. You wrote a really long short story about another girl looking into a girl’s eyes.” [Laughter] What’s that about? Thank you. – I started realizing that I was gay probably around nine or 10, watching Josh Brolin work
out in “The Goonies,” – [Ally] No.
– [Yazmin] Stop. – Something really activated. He’s like in a gray cut-off. He’s got like a headband on, and he’s doing the stretch-em workout, and then he gets tied. They tie him up to do
the thing with the thing, because they’re like mischievous kids, and then Josh Brolin sweaty
and like tied up to a chair with workout gear, for my Long Island toxic
masculinity homo brain, I was just like, [Groans] “That, that,” and then when I was 11,
I was a child actor. I started doing theater, so I would leave the
small town of Long Island, go into the big, bad city, and I would be rehearsing
around all of these hot dancers, who were very physical with each other, and just eating Power Bars, and that was like really
like, “Uh-oh, I’m in twouble.” – [Ally] Oh my God. [Laughter] Your moment that you have has one small athlete kink added to it. They were chugging
Gatorade and making out. – Oh God, there was a director
of this musical that I was in who would wear every single day, he wore a purple, it’s like a tank top. We used to call them wife beaters. We probably shouldn’t
call them that anymore. I don’t know what else we call them, but that kind of shirt,
purple, bright purple, every day the same shirt, and it just made my head flip over. – Oh my God. I love that head swim feeling. It’s terrifying, but now when I look back on it, I’m like, “That’s so pure.” It’s just like so attractive. – Yeah, I think I felt
dizzy 90% of the time. It was very uncomfortable. – I’m like look at my grades. Yeah, maybe all Cs, but think of what I was dealing with. – [Jared] Oh my God, right? – I was in an upside-down world. – Oh man, this is something
you can’t relate to, but every morning in high
school, just fully hard. Every morning, for no reason. For no reason, wake up, and it wasn’t until like third
period that it would go down. – [Ally] No! – Just like every single morning, it was something I had to deal with. It’s just like get out of
the car in a certain way. I’d walk to your class in a certain way. I’m not even horny. I’m just like, “This is insane.” – [Ally] No way. – Every single morning for hours. – I have heard stories of this, but I just didn’t believe it. [Laughter] – It’s like nuts, it’s so crazy. – It’s not a myth. We’re breaking the news right here. – You’re just like, “And
now I’m holding a book, and I’m holding a potted plant.” – Although it was kind of nice because it was Long Island
and it was cold mostly, so it was nice to have a
little warm pocket, you know? [Ally Laughs] Every morning, just like, “I’m freezing, except for one place.” [Laughs] – [Gaby] That’s a tips and tricks for you in a cold environment. – [Ally] Just bundle up. – Just think about Josh Brolin. [Laughter] – Which is clearly what you were doing. – [Gaby] I had a diary. I went back and found my old diary, and I posted on Instagram
because it’s really funny. There’s one part, it’s the gayest few sentences of all time. It’s like, “I gave Shawna the shirt.” Not her real name. I used fake names in my diary. That’s how paranoid I am. – Aw man, aw man, baby. – I was like, “I have
Shawna the shirt I got her. She was really happy. She hugged me. She’s so pretty. I love seeing her happy. I was in a bad mood, so
I skipped basketball, and I didn’t tell my parents why.” That’s the gayest short story
ever written of all time. – [Ally] I played basketball
too, in high school. – Yeah, you got to. – Everyone’s so hot. – All the older kids, all the older girls. – I did not, so I also grew up very
religious, like apostolic, like speaking in tongues.
– [Ally] Yes, yes. – It was interesting. I didn’t think about sex,
or rather I’d be like, “If I am, I’m going to
burn in a lake of fire,” so I just put it off,
put it off, put it off, and then yeah. – [Gaby] Were you like,
“Oh no, and if I have sex, like now I’m going to have sex with women, and now I’m definitely
going in the lake of fire?” – Yeah, so really what happened, my first girlfriend and I kissed, and then I was like, [Gasps] “Wait, what does this mean? Does God hate me?” and it launched this list of questions, but it was really, it was like I went from like
zero to no sex, no nothing, to like, “Whooo, I’m free!” – I was like able to be super virginal, because I’m like, “I’m 100% not interested
in Mikey or Chad.” [Laugher] It’s like, “What?” How old was that? When were you figuring all that out? – Um, that was 19. It was Sophomore year. She was my roommate,
one of my best friends. – [Ally] Oh God.
– [Gaby] Wow. – I know, I know, it was so cliche. She was on the top bunk,
I was on the bottom. I thought our house was haunted, so we were like sleeping with each other, because we were scared. – Okay. – Yeah. – Sure. – Haunted, oh, there’s
something spooky in noon air. – Right. – [Jared] There were evil
spirits in that room. [Laughter] – I’ll get you, Jared. Maybe like all the signs were there, like I wrestled in high school. – [Ally] Yeah. – It’s like you know. – Wrestling is like how
women tell each other that they’re interested in each other. [Laughter] – Now, to this day, you meet someone and you
just put them in a headlock. – I meet someone, and I wrestle them down, and I say, “Are you single?” [Laughter] – [Yazmin] Kids at home. – That’s how you do it. – Just so you know. Yeah, that must have been
crazy growing up so religious. – [Yazmin] Oh God, yeah. It’s crazy because I do poetry as well, and I performed at the Black Lesbians United Retreat one year, this poem about coming out and dealing, trying to wrap my head around
some of the contradictions in, say Leviticus where they’re
like, “You can’t eat pork, but also you can’t fuck the same sex,” you’re like, “Wait a minute. Everyone’s eating ribs.” I did that poem and this girl was like, “Oh my God, I went to a similar church. It was really hurtful
and just tough for me,” and I’m like, “I’m there with you,” and it turns out that we
were both at the same church at the same time. [Gaby Shrieks]
– You’re lying. – No.
– Whoa. – We both were like, “What? You were at Peace Apostolic too?” and I was like, “I was
at Peace Apostolic,” and we were both like, [Screams] – Oh my God. – Don’t you with you
had a beacon sometimes. – Right?
– Yeah. – I wish you could see it,
and there was like a sign. A girl I, she likes to say that
I was her babysitter, but I like would just watch her, drive her home from school or whatever, but we were like friends now and equals, but she is constantly is just like, “We met because Gaby was my babysitter,” and I’m like, “Stop. Whatever kinky thing you’re
doing with this, cut it out,” but so she, we’re equals now. – I just want to unpack
everything you just did. – Nothing has happened. She’s gay as well, and we were like, “Oh my God, I wish that when I had been
your ‘babysitter,’ whatever, we’d had like a beacon where
we could like see each other.” You know what I mean? – Absolutely. That’s the think, is like
everyone is “in the closet,” and it’s so isolating. – Yeah.
– [Yazmin] Yeah. – Our closets are right
next to each other. There’s just one wall. – [Yazmin] You could
knock on it and be like, “Are you there?” – Didn’t you also feel like the
most afraid of those people? – Yes, because I thought
they would expose me if I was friends with them, for sure. – Yeah, I had the same thing where I was kind of like self-hating
and avoided those people, and then I made the switch
to be like super-ally. Oh gosh, you know what? We need to stick up for them. I’m going to hang out with them. [Laughter] – [Jared] Growing up, all of my bullies were gay kids. [Ally Gasps] I had like three or four
bullies, exclusively gay. – [Ally] No way. – [Gaby] At the time, or now? – Two at the time, one now. – What? – That’s what really
pulled it together for me. I forget how, but I was on Kim’s Facebook, and I was like, “Oh, she’s
married to a woman, right.” That makes all of them. – Then you’re like, “Oh,
makes sense, makes sense.” – Oh my God. – I think especially when
dogs bark at dogs, you know? – Wow. – Audre Lorde has, and I love Audre, and I know it’s not necessarily funny, but she says, “I often think of Angelina
Weld Grimké dying alone in an apartment in New York City, and I think of myself in
isolation at Hunter College, and I think of what it could have meant in terms of sisterhood and solidarity. If she had known I needed her words, and had I had them.” – [Ally] Totally. – It’s like- – [Ally] It’s so beautiful. – That connection that happens
when we talk to each other. Gaby, like we had a
conversation, I want to say, like two years ago, or whatever, at Birds. I don’t know if you remember that. – Yeah, no, I remember hanging out. What was the conversation? – Just like the convo about
navigating being bi and in, because I’m married now,
you know what I mean? I just felt so much encouragement
from that conversation. – Thank you. – It’s real like, no I mean it, the moments that we have
when we talk to each other about this is what my life experience is, this is what I’m going through. You realize one, you’re not alone, but that also you can learn from how other people live their lives, or things that they’re doing that you didn’t know was even possible. You’re like, “Oh, that’s a thing?” – Especially as a bisexual
to talk to other bisexuals, because you feel a little, like sometimes you’re just like, “Okay, but I’m in this
world, but I’m in this world. What’s going on?” You feel a little, I don’t know, fuzzy. – Yeah. – Talk to another
bisexual and you’re like, “Thank God you’re here.” – Right? I’m not alone, I’m not alone. – Yeah, that’s so crazy. My uncle, who I grew up with, was the only gay person in our family, and it was so quiet and hush-hush. He would bring his roommates to Christmas. We never got to talk. My brother and I are both gay, and he was also gay. He ended up killing himself. [Gaby Groans] Yeah, and this was only
like a couple years ago. I was living in LA. He was also living in LA, and I think we’re so close, but something keeps us
from talking to each other. – Yeah, it’s crazy that the family stuff, how autopilot you can go with your family. – [Ally] Yeah, totally, and I think there’s an older
generation of queer people who haven’t healed, you know what I mean? I can only imagine watching
two young gay people grow up in the family and be more out, and not reaching out to
them, you know what I mean? – Sometimes I go, “Oh my God,” like my younger fans who are on Instagram being out with their pronouns, whatever, and I’m like, “Oh, this
is post-Glee America.” [Laughter] “You don’t even know what
it was like pre-Glee. Get out of here with that.” – Yes, totally. There’s still things that you can work on, even as an out person. There’s still ways that we
find to isolate ourselves, I kind of feel like. – I have one out gay family member. I think he’s like my dad’s cousin, and he was literally described
to me as a black sheep. We didn’t know him. He never came around. He owned a chocolate store in the city, and once I was living there, I went to work there for like a week. – [Ally] What? – It was kind of bizarre
because it was just like I needed a job and he was like,
“You should come work here.” I think a part of me, I wasn’t out yet, and there was a part of me
that was just kind of curious. I went there to kind
of suss out this thing that I didn’t even realize I
was doing fully at the time. I didn’t take the job
because it was $8 an hour. [Laughter] I’d seen what I needed to see. – So he low-balled you? – He did.
[Laughter] – Sounds like a black sheep to me. – Yeah.
[Laughter] – They didn’t like him not
because of the gay stuff. They were just like, “That
guy’s cheap as hell.” – Yeah, was he queer? Was he like a gay man? – Yeah, gay man. – [Ally] Oh wow. That’s so crazy. There’s so many people that fall through the cracks in families. I feel like we could all find
someone that’s in our family that we’re like, “Oh yeah,
no one talks to them. What happened?”
– Yeah and the ways that you could even as an adult, just still operate with your child mind, like not even ask questions, you know? – [Ally] Totally. – When you’re out in the world, you can be so sharp and aware and clocking gay people left and right, but when it comes to your own family, you’re just like, what my parents told me
when I was a kid is real, and that’s all I know. – [Ally] We do things this way, and it’s like you can
rock the boat at any time. You are like a full individual. It just takes an email. – Right? – Yeah. – I feel like I became empowered, though, when I was okay, I haven’t been smoted yet, smeeted? [Laughter] Whatever it is. – [Ally] No one has smited me, yeah. – I feel like God would be cool with love. – [Gaby] Yeah, of course. – Right, and then I remember
going to and being like, “I’m not crazy.” – [Ally] Whoa, what is that? – This website that existed
at the time, I don’t know. – [Jared] It’s a bar. [Laughter]
– [Gaby] It’s a bar, yeah, Gay Church. We go on Saturdays. – The mimosas are great. Getting rid of all the
shame or whatever is was that I was feeling around any sexuality. I was just like, “Oh, here is the world, and I can do what I want, and I can follow my
instincts and my intuition.” With every facet of my
life I was like, “Oh.” I went into a college thing. I was going to be a veterinarian, and then I took Black Feminist
Thought around the same time that I was coming out, and I was like, “Oh, I’m okay.” – [Ally] This, yeah totally. – This is what I want to do. – Yeah, what a helpful class to take. – Oh yeah. We were reading “The Color
Purple,” by Alice Walker. – [Gaby] But you could have also been the most radical veterinarian of all time. – Yeah, true. – Think about that. Black-owned feminist
veterinarian’s office. – Yes. – [Jared] You do not
call this dog a bitch. [Laughter] – I would go there for sure. – “Get out!” okay, great, well we are going
to move on to our segment. Each episode we have a haunted word, a scary creepy-crawly little word [Jared Laughs]
for us just to discuss. Today it is, beard. [Thunderclap] [Screams And Laughs] Beard, what does it make you think of? [Thunderclap] Every time someone says beard. – Oh, beard. [Thunderclap] [Laughter] okay, I know what it makes me think of. – Yeah? – My parents asked me to bring a beard to my Dad’s- [Thunderclap] – No, uh-uh, shut it down. [Laughter] Absolutely not. – 50th birthday beard. [Thunderclap] – To your what? – My dad’s 50th birthday. – No way. – Yeah, and she is my best friend, and my mom asked me, “Would you bring her, just so that we can
make it seem that way.” – No, when was that? – I was already, of course I was out. They were asking me to do this. That was, I was probably like
maybe 20, 19, 20 years old. – [Ally] Oh my God. – Just newly come out, maybe
been out for like a year, and my parents, we did the big fight. We did the big silence. We did the moving on, but like nothing was
readdressed in a real way, so yeah, that’s what they wanted, and it really bummed me out, but I was going to bring my friend anyway, and I brought her along with me. I haven’t asked them since. I hope they didn’t tell anyone that she was my girlfriend at the time. Also what was so, we got there and there were
like three gay waiters, and the whole time me and the
gay waiters were just like, [Whispers] [Laughter] It was actually kind of beautiful, because by the end of it, I was really upset. I had left, and then I had just called
her because it was like, I couldn’t really talk to them about it. Certainly couldn’t talk to
them about it at the party, so afterwards I left and I was just on this really long walk, and I called my mom and I was like, “Hey, I can’t do that, I can’t do this.” It took that for her to realize, “Okay, I’m fucking up, and I have to stop, and I have to let it all go,” and she really really truly
did from that phone call. Yeah, so it was like being made to have a beard for one day [Thunderclap]
for my dad’s birthday. – Oh, let’s not, let’s not. [Laughter] – How dare you? It was just great. It was the breakthrough that
I needed with my parents. – That is so great. – Yeah. – The idea of beard is so shocking to me, because I do feel like it’s
kind of like straight people’s, straight people are so obsessed
with the concept of a beard, because I think it involves them. [Laughter] It’s just like, “How could I
be tricked by a gay person?” I don’t think I ever had a beard. I think I sincerely tried,
you know what I mean? – [Jared] Yeah.
– Like you chalk up relationships that I had with men as like, “I was just had a beard,” and I manipulated them
or something like that, oh you’re leaving out so much care there – Yeah.
– [Jared] Yeah. – and self-finding, and no one
knows exactly who they are, so don’t. – And the whole time
of being in the closet, it’s not just like you’re
not only stopping yourself. You’re also starting what you think you’re
supposed to be doing, and it’s like this two-fold thing, and you lose on both ends. You’re only doing what you
think you’re supposed to do, and you hope that people are compassionate about it in the end, but
sometimes they aren’t. – [Gaby] Or people sincerely don’t know. – Yes. – Friends of mine who’ve
come out way later in life. I don’t understand that because
I knew when I was younger, but they just did not know. – Totally, oh absolutely. There’s so many factors that can go into not knowing your sexuality
at a young age, yeah. – They weren’t trying to fool anyone. They just didn’t know. – It’s interesting, though, like being kind of, in the fluid space in between of, like having had friends who have gotten with someone of the opposite sex as a way to hide their sexuality, but also being bi, like both people that I’ve dated. I feel like people have been like, “Oh, is that a beard for Yazmin?” I’m like, “I like both,
beards and mustaches.” I don’t know. [Laughter] There’s no cover, there’s no hiding. Not from the moment, but I was like, “Okay, I’m bi, and that’s all right,” and once I embraced that, like I don’t have fear in the
world no matter who I’m with, but I’ve been at Pride before
and had someone be like, “Hey straight couple,
what are you doing here?” – Yeah, I hate that. – It’s like I’m very much still a part of the family and the rainbow, but I also don’t hide that
part about myself in anything. I’m unapologetic about it. I can’t necessarily personally relate to the idea of a beard because I do both. – Yeah, yeah, I guess. – [Yazmin] But I do have mustache envy. What I would not do
with a twirly mustache. Oh my God. – Yeah, if a beard is someone
you’re using to look straight, what is a mustache, I wonder? [Laughter] – Like a really skinny person. [Laughter] – He needs to bulk if
he wants to be a beard. This is just my mustache. – We’re working on it. He’s at the gym all the time. – Yeah, that is really
interesting, though, the idea of optics as appearing straight or something like that. I think that all the time. I’ve definitely considered, I don’t know where I
am on the gender scale, but depending on where I go it’s like, “Will I end up a straight person?” [Laughter] Will I end up a straight, white man? Interesting. Now is the time. – Yeah, definitely do that, Ally. Become a straight white man. – I’m just like that’s so interesting, knowing what people, will I end up with a partner who only saw themselves with men? Will that hurt, you know what I mean? Unsure of what that feels like, but yeah, I think that’s so
interesting to be at Pride. Pride is a mess already. Who’s looking at who. – [Yazmin] Let’s talk about it. [Laughter] – We need a new Pride that is like sweet, like town hall meeting of
just all the gay people in that city. Queer-only town halls. – The comment section on that one. – [Ally] Oh yeah, already. Okay, great, we are now going to go into
my favorite part of the show. User-submitted questions. If you’re watching at home, thank you so much for
submitting questions. We really appreciate all
your thoughtful effort in submitting questions. If you haven’t submitted yet, we always put up an anonymous survey that you can answer, so if you’re maybe in the closet or you just don’t want to attach
your name to something, feel free to ask a question. All right. Here we are. – Official, official. – We have some gorgeous questions. This one comes from someone named Brad. – Oh, hi Brad. – Hi Brad. “I recently came out to my mum.” – Congrats. – [Gaby] British. – Brad’s British. – [Gaby] Brad is British. – “I recently came out to my mum, but I was drunk at the time. I’m glad I did it, but I have this gross feeling
that I’ve failed myself. Is there a wrong way to come out?” – Oh, no, I don’t think
you failed yourself. I think do it again sober. – Totally. – But also that’s a hilarious story that I’m sure you’ll love telling. When you’re older you’ll be like, “That was very funny.” Might not seem funny now, but trust me it’s funny.” – [Ally] Yes. – I don’t know if there’s
a wrong way to come out. I always wish, I started doing stuff on the internet and started acting and doing
all this entertainment stuff, and I was already out. I would talk about it freely, and now I’m like, “God, I
could have monetized that.” [Laughter] – What do you mean? – I could have made a
coming out YouTube video that would have got
like six million views, are you kidding me? I could have saved it for
an exclusive at a magazine. – Brad, take notes. – Why didn’t I make any money? I didn’t make any money off my coming out. – That’s so weak. – I’m broke and gay. – I should have had a tearful video that was 18 minutes long and would have made me so much money. – That is interesting. Do you guys watch any YouTube videos? That’s how I was first like, “I am definitely trans,” because that’s all I would watch, when I had the privacy of my
own YouTube moment, you know? – [Jared] Was it videos of
trans people coming out? – [Ally] Yeah, trans people being like, “I started T, and this
is what it looks like,” or “I started estrogen,”
and a day in the life, and I was just like, I just think it’s interesting. 14 hours later. [Laughter] – You’re like, “I’m not alone, and what brand is that?” [Laughter] – I just watch exclusively gay YouTubers, gay and trans YouTubers, and it’s also great because I
think when I was growing up, there was no, you weren’t able to see any queer people, and now you can just hop on YouTube and see a million of them, and it’s almost like, “Why
is every YouTuber gay?” I’m like, “Oh, I don’t know. You just are feeling lonely and you want to make videos in your room and try to reach other
people seems pretty gay.” – Yeah, also how come nothing else is gay? Who has a chokehold on what media makes it to the big screen.
– Exactly, exactly. – I remember the first
coming out video on YouTube that I watched was wild. YouTube wasn’t that pervasive at the time that I was coming out, so when I saw the first one, at that point I had already been out, and it blew my mind. They stopped, and he’s on
the phone with his dad, and then he chickens out
for a sec, and he hangs up, and I’m like, “Oh my God. I cannot believe I am allowed, being invited to watch this.” I couldn’t imagine. My coming out was like the
scariest thing I thought would ever happen, and
it kind of was actually. – [Gaby] That’s why you
should get paid to do it. [Laughter] We should all be paid to do it. – Gaby’s now our accountant. – Brad, get paid to come out somehow. – How was coming out for you? – It was a disaster. – Yeah?
– It was so bad. – No way.
– Oh my God. – Tell me everything.
– It was a full fight. I tried to come out to my
parents when I was like 12, and this was around the time I was seeing all these hot dancers. – [Ally] Tied up. [Laughs]
– Right? I came home and I told my mom. I was at rehearsal that day, and I had seen two men
kissing by a vending machine, and I was just destroyed over it, and I told her about it, and I tried to start this conversation, and it was very quickly was like, “Oh, don’t worry, oh, no, no, no, no.” I was like, “Okay.” Then it wasn’t until probably
six or seven years later when my mom found porn on my computer. – [Gaby] No, the worst! – But also like your fault, Mom. I tried to tell you when I was 12. It could have been so cute. – Yes, yes. – You thought like two guys kissing at a vending machine was bad? – [Ally] Get ready for Ethan and- – Check out my hard drive. Jesus. – That’s how you’re
waking up every morning. – That sucks. [Laughter] – Yeah, right? Then it was just like, and then I was like, “But don’t tell Dad,” which is like so
understandable but also insane. Is she not going to tell her husband that their baby that they made this really big important thing? – It is, though. There were like three
people that I was like, “I’ll never tell them,” and only one person is on that list still. – [Ally] Really? – I was like I’m never
going to tell my dad, I’m never going to tell
my wrestling coach, and I’m never going to
tell my dad’s ex-wife. – I think you wouldn’t have
to tell your wrestling coach. That’s pretty gay. [Laughter] – Who’s left on the list? – Never going to tell my girlfriend. – [Yazmin] My dad’s ex-wife. – Oh, okay, got it. – Also they divorced. – That one took care of itself. – Right? [Laugher] – Wow. I’m not as close with my dad, so it was never really an issue. I was just like, “I’m
coming out to my mom, done,” but then for me it was my youth pastor, who was like a full-on father figure, and was like wildly evangelical
by-the-book religious, and I had to come out to him at a summer camp that
I was a counselor for. – [Yazmin] Last day or first? – Thank you. You know what’s going on. It was honestly the hardest thing ever, because with my mom, she
called me and was like, “I think your brother might be gay,” and I said, “I think I might be too,” and she was like, “Oh.” – Oh my God, what a great- – It was amazing. She was fine, it was great. Then this youth pastor, I was doing stand-up at this church camp. I was the entertainment, and then I also got to be a counselor. I was an amazing counselor. – [Jared] Were you wearing a bolo tie? – How are you? [Laughter] I feel so seen in a gross way. Of course I was. I’m there. It’s like mid-way through the week. This is in Michigan. I’m like, “I need to come out to this guy. It’s really important to
me that I have closure and come out to these people.” I was really torn up about it, because this could go so bad. I don’t know if I could face a rejection far away from home, you know, and then just have to go home, so part-way through the
week this woman was like, “Are you okay?” This really nice mom that
was working there too, and I was like, “No,” and of course like burst into tears. I was like, “No, I’m carrying
a lot of stuff right now.” Told everything to her. She was so sweet and she was like, “Okay, don’t tell him now, because the church has a terrible
pedophilia homosexuality.” She was like, “He might take you out of
your counselor position, because you’re in a bunk with teen girls,” not realizing like I’m gay. I’m not into 15-year-old women. It’s a different thing. So she was like, “Come
out at the end of camp.” She was like, “Wait
until the very last day. Tell him on the way to the airport.” – [Jared] They’re all
pregnant, it’s too late. – This is like this older woman, yeah. It was the best advice ever. I was like, “Oh my God, thank you.” – I can’t imagine being stuck at a camp and just being like, “I know
you’re going to fuck with me.” – Yeah, that’s the thing. You have no reason not to like me, but I just know that you won’t now. – Zora Neale Hurston says, “Why would you deny yourself
the pleasure of my company?” – [Ally] Yes! – I love that shit so much. – [Ally] I love that. – Why would you, but that’s on you. – [Ally] Fully. – [Gaby] I just ghosted all those people. I like full-ghosted. I grew up religious as well. I full-ghosted everyone, and then just became internet famous, and then they found out that way. [Laughter] Just a full ghost, and then if they look at my Instagram. – Oh my God. – Yeah, kind of the same
thing, not Instagram famous, but I came out to my extended
family through the grapevine, and I didn’t ever say
one gay thing to them until they came and saw me do standup, and it was like 10 minutes
of like, “So I’m gay.” – [Gaby] Yes.
– [Ally] Oh my God. – I did jokes about being
bisexual in my standup, and my parents, they thought I was joking, and then was what, why would I do that? – Good one, Gaby. – I was great, and then
when I was in college, I was at a bris with my dad, and he’s like, “What’s wrong with you? You’re in a bad mood.” I was like, “I’m just having
trouble with this girl,” and he was like, “What?” Then we went into another room, and I like came out to him again, and he was like, “Oh!” – [Yazmin] It wasn’t a bit. – He’s like, “I thought it was a bit.” Truly he thought it was a bit. – Oh my God. – I’m like, “Why would that be a bit?” He’s like, “I’m listening
now, I’m so sorry. I’m listening now.” Then my mom, I’d been out for 10 years, and my mom came to visit, and my younger sister is very straight, and were hanging out and she’s like, “Your younger sister has
such beautiful nails. Why are your nails so short, Gabrielle?” I was like, “Well,” and my sister was like, “I need
to leave, I need to leave.” I was like, “You’re staying for this.” [Laughter] I was like, “Mom, I have sex with women,” and she was like, “Oh!” I was like, “I’ve been
out to you for 10 years. What did you think I did
with my girlfriends?” She was like, “Just hang
out and talk, I guess. It never occurred to me that you would be having sex with them,” and I was like, “That’s why gay is.” She’s like, “I know that conceptually, but I didn’t know it actually,” and my sister was like, “Can I leave now?” – And you were like, “No.” – “No, you’re staying here.” My mom was like, “Oh,” so they can get it. Coming out is in phases, where like my parents
got it in different ways at different times over
the course of 10 years. – I hope my parents never get it. [Laughter] I’m like, “Gay is a TV show,
and I’m on it, end of story.” That’s all you need to know. – My sister was like, “When you came out, it was the best thing
because it meant that I could do anything and get away with it.” – [Ally] Oh my God. – My dad was super-homophobic
when I came out, and then I was dating men and women, and I think he got used
to it and was like, “All right, fine,” and then I met my husband, and he was like, “Yes.” – [Ally] Oh my God. – I sent him a video of these
fathers who went to Pride with their gay children. I was like, “If only.” I just sent it to him, and he’s like, “Yazzie, are you trying
to tell me something?” – [Gaby] Unbelievable! – I was like, “No, I’m not
doing this trauma again. Yes Dad, I’m bi, you know
this, you know this.” – Oh my God. – But he’s like, “Are you
trying to tell me something?” I just said, “Nigga, get out of here.” [Laughter] “We’re done here, we’re done.” – So he’ll probably never go
to Pride with you, you think? – No, it’s real messed up. – I feel like my Mom would,
but she would be nervous. – My parents would be so into it, I actually don’t want them. They would fully paint their faces. It would be too much. My parents are very very
leftist to the point that I think they really love me being queer because they can go on
Facebook and argue with people and go, “Well my gay daughter.” They love it. [Laughter] They had a “LGBTQ for
Hillary” on their front lawn. The background of my
mom’s phone is a rainbow. I said, “Why?” She said, “For you.” I said, “I don’t live here.” – Yeah. – [Jared] My mom has a
rainbow flag in her basement. It’s like so many levels of “Why?” – She’s like, “I will be as loud as you
need me to be, underground.” [Laughter] – She lives on Staten Island,
so you know it’s tough. – She doesn’t want to get hate crimes. Literally not a joke anymore. Okay, final question. “How do you all feel
about the difficulties of creating queer characters
when writing or acting? It seems that when you have a character, and they are on some level of queer, you get people asking why
a character has to be gay, or if it’s an old character and there’s no indication
that that person is queer until after the fact, people get mad about that
character being re-conned,” like with Dumbledore, when people are saying
when Dumbledore was gay. – [Jared] Yeah, well, I’m a terrible writer, so I
have bigger problems than that. [Laughter] – Every character should be gay. Every character is gay
until proven straight, and even then they’re bisexual. I’m sorry. Every single character is queer. You know when it’s like
one queer person in a show, and all the other friends are straight, and I’m like, “Who are that
person’s real friends?” They go home and have different friends, because there’s no way. Every person in my life is queer. I only have queer friends. There is no way that that
person hangs out with only, like you find each other, you at least want to find community. – Totally. – If every single character
in something I write is queer, that’s actually more realistic then if there’s just one queer person. – Totally. – Because that would be
their actual friends. – It would be nice, though, if the default was we don’t know. Let’s find out what that
person’s sexuality is, but it’s all default straight.
– I think every character’s, every character is bisexual. Every character on every show is bisexual. You can fucking quote me. I Tweeted one time. I was like- – Reba McEntire, what up? [Laughter] – I Tweeted, I was like, “If I ever write something,” which I write all the
time, but I was like, “Anything I write and
every character I ever play as an actress, please assume they are bisexual. I don’t care if my character
is the main girl in a rom-com and my whole storyline
is a dude, I am bisexual. [Laughter] That is my gift to you, every person who’s a fan of me. Forget it. I wrote a comic book that
comes out in October, and every character is
queer, and I don’t care. Every single one, but fight me. – [Ally] Totally. I wrote a pilot where everyone was gay, and the biggest note was
like, “Everyone’s gay?” – Everyone.
– Yes. – Everyone.
– Okay, yes, when you’re gay you pick
up a lot of gay friends. – I wrote a YA novel that
came out a couple years ago, and I went to Emerson
College which, by the way, the unofficial slogan is, “Gay
by May, or your money back,” and everyone was like, my half of the book, I
wrote it with another girl, and my half took place at Emerson College, and they were like, “Every
person at this college is gay?” I was like, “It would be
unrealistic to my experience if there was a straight person
in my side of the story. I’m sorry.” You want to talk about
how it’s unrealistic that every character is gay? Every character or any character
being straight at Emerson would be unbelievable to
anyone who knows Emerson. – How do you guys craft a
queer character with care? How would you go about that? – They’re just a person.
– [Yazim] Yeah. – Then they have this, I like late, not late coming out, but in the comic book the girl
is bisexual the whole time, and then she’s got this male
love interest who’s very macho. I’m spoiling the thing, but anyway, basically he comes out later in the book, and I just like to be like,
“Yeah, you already know him, and you had thoughts and
assumptions about him, and suck it.” [Laughter] – I do love that notion of including queer narratives in everything, and I think the care comes from really wanting to see the
characters that I wanted. Toni Morrison says, “I
write the characters that I wanted to read.” I’m like, “These are the
stories I want to see.” I want to see the brown girl fall in love, and not have that love be like tarnished or have them die or some horror movie. – [Ally] Yes. – I just want to see it work out. I think it’s infused with women I’ve dated, women
I know, myself, I put, often a lot of my own narratives
show up in my creativity. – [Ally] Totally. – I think that care comes from that, but also knowing that the next generation is
going to come to this, and this will be their
salvation potentially, and I have to be honest
with this character. I have to give it love
and care and make sure that it’s a story that I
want, a story that I need. – I wouldn’t even know how to
write a straight character. I would just like, my friend and I wrote, we’re writing straight
characters in a sketch, and literally the straight man just had a line where he was like, “We do that every Sunday at
the bar watching football,” and she and I were like,
“Good job, we did a good job. That’s definitely what a
straight person would say.” – Let’s go. – Yeah, we were like, “Good work.” We write really believable
male characters. [Laughter] – Last year I read a book
called “A Little Life,” [Yazmin Gasps]
by Hanya Yanagihara. – You all, stop watching this right now. That’s awful to say, but “A Little Life” is so good. – It’s the best book I’ve ever read. – Really, Oh my God. – [Jared] I would say. I don’t read a lot. [Yazmin] It’s pretty high up there. – Love this. So four Harry Potters, and this. – Yeah, it’s a great representation of- – So nuanced.
– Queer men, and it is a mix of every identity, and that’s what’s so
great about the story. Just go read that and you’ll
know a little bit more about- – [Yazmin] It’s the most powerful book. – Oh my God. – Okay, great. Let’s do, before we go, let’s do, where can anyone find you? Where can they, what do you
want them to see of yours? – Sure, I am on Twitter and Instagram at heyjaredhey, and you can watch me on Dekkoo, which is a gay streaming app, and Out on Stage, which is an all-queer standup series, hosted by Zach Noe Towers. – Oh my God, love it, cool. – You can find me on Instagram. Let me not even lie, I
don’t post to Facebook, so yazminmonewatkins. I improve with my team,
Obama’s Other Daughters. We have a monthly show at
UCB called Black Girl Magic, every first Wednesday of the month. – You guys are amazing. – Thank you, and I do spoken work too,
so find me on the internets. – Love it, Gaby? – I’m on Instagram at gabyroad, which is a stupid Beatles pun, because I didn’t believe
Instagram was going to take off, so don’t listen to anything I say. I’m on Twitter at gabydunn, and then I have a YouTube
show called Just Between Us, and then I have a book that
came out like a month ago called “Bad With Money,” and it’s based on my
podcast, Bad With Money, and it’s a finance show and finance book, but it’s funny and queer
and social justice-y, and you can watch me
go from someone asking, “What is a stock?” to
a full-blown socialist by Season Three. [Laughter] – Love it, all right, great. Well thank you so much everyone. Thank you so much for watching, and we’ll see you in a couple weeks. Bye.

Randy Schultz

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60 thoughts on “Beard

  1. Oreo Cookie says:


    (First btw but idc about that that much)

  2. almıla says:

    First comment for the first time. I support you guys.

  3. Marie Lastname says:

    Oh, it says "beard", not "bread". I'll stay anyway.

    Edit: Didn't know that "beard" was slang for something I still don't 100 % understand. (I'm 28 minutes and 45 in so far.) Had I known I probably wouldn't have made this stupid joke. I mean, I honestly read "bread" at first but now that I know that "beard" stands for something rather serious I just want you people to know I'm not fun of anything serious. I just made fun of myself and my brain when posting my comment.

  4. Anna Johnson says:


  5. Rawr Rawr says:


  6. Zachary Carrell says:

    I love the candle bit so much

  7. rasmus frerks says:

    Yeah ur back?

  8. what's it to ya!? says:


  9. A Pile of Eggs says:

    look at these fun cool fashionable people

  10. Jose Aguilar says:

    We all know that the 100% straight person she knows is Allison, right?

  11. Natacha Smith says:

    I have never heard the term beard before !?

  12. FlameyHeart says:

    Ayy. Finally, another person from Long Island

  13. Phantomine X says:

    I think coming out of the closet is probably due to the early negative connotation of it and the phrase “skeletons in the closet”

  14. FilmyProfessor says:

    Ahhhh…. left wing pronouns….

  15. Coco Lime says:

    no one's saying it so i will:

    yazmin is hot af

  16. Ordinary Orca says:

    Honestly I hope this show doesn't get too many more episodes, I'm really enjoying it but honestly Ally is a firehazard.

  17. Rob Mckennie says:

    Yeah man, Ally gets it. Gender is meaningless, orientation is nonsensical. I'm attracted to traits, not categories

  18. CanYouEvenImagine? says:

    I'm a straight C student too!!!

  19. Alec renwick says:

    Dude same about the boners

  20. P N says:

    holy shit im literally getting the same nauseated feeling i get when i try to come out to people when i heard them explaining the details and horrors of their own coming out. i can feel the hurt and uncomfortableness they felt on a visceral level. its fucking crazy goddamn coming out is just so scary and i dont think i will be able to do it until i go to college.

  21. Mr. Potato says:


  22. Mira Figueira says:

    i hate gabbi

  23. Raquel Esteves says:

    meanwhile, only 2 of my friends are queer, and one that basically says: ''The current gender roles are a capitalism invention'', but beyond that, they're all straight, even my sister she's the straighter person I've ever met.
    Edit:explain a little better what my friend meant

  24. Emma Holt says:

    The sketch Gaby Wrote with the unrealistic straight man came out like yesterday on Alexis G zall's channel

  25. Benedicte Adair says:

    I would really love it if some future guests were lesser known LGBTQ+ identities and shared their differing perspectives on coming out / daily life.

  26. wet sock says:


  27. James Kindrick says:

    Homo means same, hetero means different. If you're they/them, and you're into she/her, then you're hetero, because they/them isn't the same as she/her. Buuut, this is why some people don't use the terms hetero or homo, because they rely on not only what you're into, but also what you are, whereas there are terms that describe what you're into without relying on what you are, gynophilia and androphilia, which are the attraction to she/her and the attraction to he/him respectively.

  28. ted fitzwilliams says:

    For me even tho i live in a pretty gay city i dont hold hands not bc of external perception of me but bc i want to keep my partner safe from creeps. Like yeah we as female bodied people are still going to be subject to street harassment but the implied snubbing of mens interests by holding hands makes some of these creeps more aggressive. I dont think i could handle the idea of my partner getting hurt as a result of my affection. So im constantly scared to express my affection publicly with girls and its honestly put a weird wedge in most of my relationships.

  29. Mohamud mohamed says:

    What's up with the pronouns can someone explain that

  30. Sawyer Oof says:

    Being out of The Closet(tm) could be removing your skeletons from the closet?

  31. Bryson Taylor says:

    This is my favorite podcast

  32. Mad Jack says:

    I need to ask is ally gay?

  33. Juan Chavez says:

    I mean have you read “Epistemology of the Closet?”

  34. Ernst Johannes says:

    Oh, tight! A new episode of my favorite podcast, and -oh.. ITS GABBY!!!! ?❤??

  35. CH2 says:

    Watch every podcast a week early on DROPOUT! Try it free:

  36. Seth Ryan says:

    Can we get Ally’s brother on?

  37. Emily Robinson says:

    Is Yazmin from Cracked???

  38. God of Beans says:

    7 minutes in and theres still no joke about ally BEARDsley I'm suing
    Edit: 27 minutes in and STILL nobody has done it
    2nd Edit: 35 minutes and no joke
    3rd Edit: I'm broken its ended and nobody said anything

  39. God of Beans says:

    29:07 look at the legs its a gradient from attracted to women to attracted to men

  40. stefoehmen says:


  41. Sara Warnquist says:

    mustache could be someone you're using to seem bi! like you don't want family to think there's lost hope that you wont pro-create naturally so you have some male dates too so they're like ohhh she'll settle down with a man and all will be well

  42. MJ Wise says:

    45:56 Okay I was already considering going to Emerson but this has me SOLD

  43. MJ Wise says:

    Yazmin's multiple references to classic female black writers gives me so much life. Zora Neale Hurston, Toni Morrison, AND she's read A Little Life. We stan a well-read queen. I am 100% gonna look up her spoken word because I bet its fantastic.

  44. All Over Stylist _Priscilla says:

    Ally is so attractive omg. Literally makes me gayer. And the cheekbones, damn.

  45. khylle1 says:

    I think I should just, point out the elephant in the room….Jared looks like a hotter version of zac oyama

  46. Whatsername says:

    See, I was thinking "coming out of the closet" being more like pulling your skeletons out of the closet… like it's a bad thing…

  47. Caramandunga says:

    if her parents have "lgbtq for hillary" on their front lawn they're probably not very leftist

  48. Rp Account says:

    No one in my family is LGBT+ for as many generations as I know, it’s just weird like I have massive family, I feel like someone else has to be something, even if we’re not directly related

  49. Rp Account says:

    My default for when thinking about people, is bi and they/them, so it’s kind of an in between so not gay, not straight and if they’re male or female and if they are bi an nb it would be great

  50. Noah M says:

    Hey Ally, I'd like to see some trans people on the podcast! I'm in love with what you're doing so far and I can't wait to see the next episode.

  51. Pratham Gurung says:

    31:44 Wow that truly felt like an episode of Just Between Us

  52. Chococats Style says:

    i'm glad the audio got better ! love this

  53. ThatOneCoatRack says:

    My parents thought that I stopped reading when I got to high school, but it turns out that I was just reading exclusively fanfiction. It has a bad rep (because most of it really is trash), but it was the only place that I could find queer representation (other than the one (1) gay book in my local library.

  54. Lily Coughlan says:

    At school when we started Drama the teacher had us write our preferred pronouns and my friend wrote: He, Him, You, I

  55. tangy tablets says:

    oh hey. wasnt gaby from buzzfeed?

  56. shbunie says:

    Today I learned what a 'beard' is ><

  57. Thomas Pastor says:

    As a straight moron with no filter, I have a question. When they say "trans", what do they mean? I mean, I know what transgender is, but are they referring to a different type of "trans"? Just so you know, I'm only asking out of simple curiosity, not because I'm a homophobe.

  58. Megan Hoose says:

    I like to think that ‘coming out of the closet’ came from us being super extra and calling our parents to our rooms, where we were hiding in the closet, then bursting out wearing our flag
    Idk just something I came up with on the spot

  59. Nara Mamari says:

    Came her from drop out just to comment that I am in vet school and most of my class is queer/ faminist/ activist. So idk what y'all are talking ab saying she would be the coolest vet or whatever, we are all awesome as fuck.

  60. Srishti C says:

    The possibility of Ally ending up a straight person lmao

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